FIAT 500 USA MPG

[sam500]

I second that!!

[Fiat500USA]

Ok, some news is coming that will make all smile... Sit tight for the OK.

[sketch]

Haha!  Well, thanks!  I ain't mad, just keepin' it real ;)

[cinquecento]

Let me guess: actual EPA numbers?

[sam500]

Just read your official post on the main page! 30/38 is great news!! Better yet, that the car is lively and quintessentially italian :)

Thanks Chris!!

[Fiat500USA]

sam500 wrote

Just read your official post on the main page! 30/38 is great news!! Better yet, that the car is lively and quintessentially italian :)

Thanks Chris!!

There was an embargo on all info so I couldn't say anything. Laura told us about the fuel economy during her presentation.

The car is a blast to drive. The MultiAir engine has no throttle valve so it sounds super throaty. I was constantly on the gas to hear it pull. I read somewhere a journalist couldn't do 65 mph in 3rd gear. As these cars were pre-production maybe he had one low on power. I hit 90mph before I had to back off for a sanity check. That's with 2 people with a combined weight of 410lbs!

[ciddyguy]

I read that and it sounds more and more like the car I would be happy in.

Sounds like this car might come closest to the little '83 Civic I once had that I had such a ball driving, it was the 1500cc 4 pot motor, cranking out all of 67hp, but it was SO. MUCH. FUN to drive and I didn't feel wanting in power because it was what, 1800# n curb weight but brought great mileage and was super practical too and if I'm not mistaken, it had an 88" wheelbase so was a bit shorter than the 500 (mine was the 3 door hatch w/ 5Spd)!

The mileage, getting 30 city is almost unheard of still and this car seems to be achieving it even though the highway mileage seems about what has been reported, now if one drove sensibly, kept the revs to around 3000rpm at cruising speed, I bet the highway mileage would be a bit better, prolly closer to 40 there.

It's the city mileage that has been the achiellies heel of fleet mileage for many.

This keeps getting better and better!

[Springer2011]

I posted questions in another thread but here is a summary of my EPA mileage rating questions.

Question 1 - Manual = 30/38, Automatic = 27/34
Why is automatic version 3-4 mpg less than manual when the current EPA ratings in 2010 and 2011 are within about 1 mpg?

Question 2 - I agree with poster that in reviewing all the European mileage data, why is the City rating so much lower than the European versions when the multiair technology is used for EPA rating and previous engine used for European version?

Question 3 - If the US uses multiair technology and the european versions tested use the previous generation engines why is the US mileage so much less than the European cycle test data. European test data is Cty/Hwy/Comb for Manual = 33/47/41, Automatic = 35/47/42.

Background Info - The European test cycle for City/Highway uses top speeds of 31 mph City and 55 mph Highway. The EPA test cycle uses different top speeds and more acceleration/deceleration cycles.

[Jim McKenzie]

I do admit that the low estimates for the automatic transmission have me disappointed as well.  I know that the US version supposedly does not use the exact same Duo-Logic used in Europe, and wonder if this new US transmission is the culprit?

A shame if true...my girlfriend and my daughters all want me to buy an auto this time around, they cannot drive either my X1/9 or my 850 Spider and are wondering if I am buying stickshifts on purpose :)  Next car MUST be an auto...

[sketch]

Well.... yes.  You answered your own question.

The numbers in Europe and in America cannot be compared and will (and should!) be different for the same car.  The test cycles are different, and they are adjusted differently.  On top of that, the figures published by the EPA are calculated in a way that makes them something like 22% lower than the figures as-tested, because this yields a figure that is much closer to real-world.

Big changes in EPA numbers came in 2007; that's why the Prius's ratings, for the same car, went from 60/51 to 48/45.  I'm not sure about the Euro cycle, but I'm sure that it's different.

As for the automatic, I'm not sure, but I'm confident it has at least something, and perhaps everything, to do with the transmission.  If they'd used the Dualogic, it would have probably been a bit better; conventional torque converter automatics are simply inefficient, which is more noticeable with a smaller engine, I think.

[FiatGal]

Finally, a MASSIVE snow day gives me some reprieve to attend to Fiat things...

I too have been disappointed with the EPA figures. I fell in love with this car 3 years ago, in large part because I was looking at the TwinAir and/or Diesel figures. I want a small car with good to great gas mileage. Oh. And stylish helps. Now, I'm really at a loss. I mean...  my 88 Mazda 323 gets almost as good mileage as this car.

I'm trying to process all the great info I've read here. I'm now thinking of holding off. Maybe I wait until the TwinAir or Diesel gets here? Or maybe I wait until our infrastructure can handle the EV for my 40+miles commute to work?

Thoughts?

Oh! one other thing. Are those numbers for the Pop or the Sport?

[Fiat500USA]

FiatGal wrote

Finally, a MASSIVE snow day gives me some reprieve to attend to Fiat things...

I too have been disappointed with the EPA figures. I fell in love with this car 3 years ago, in large part because I was looking at the TwinAir and/or Diesel figures. I want a small car with good to great gas mileage. Oh. And stylish helps. Now, I'm really at a loss. I mean...  my 88 Mazda 323 gets almost as good mileage as this car.

I'm trying to process all the great info I've read here. I'm now thinking of holding off. Maybe I wait until the TwinAir or Diesel gets here? Or maybe I wait until our infrastructure can handle the EV for my 40+miles commute to work?

Thoughts?

Oh! one other thing. Are those numbers for the Pop or the Sport?

Hi FiatGal,

I would wait for real world statistics 'cause I don't trust EPA figures. Don't know what model (might not make much of a difference).

This car isn't a feather weight and is packed with equipment. If Fiat wanted to they could easily decontent the car, strip  everything out of it and grab ultra fuel economy tires and go head to head on a fuel mileage war.  Who knows, maybe in the future, but right now, i don't see it happening.  I just went through the equipment list, it is loaded with features and there is a cost to that in weight, etc.

It's a trade off, and another tough decision :) but maybe, not too tough.  With the eco:drive system, I'm sure I'll play with that to see how much MPGs I can get.  Of course, that's after I get tired of winding the engine up to hear it sing!

[sketch]

Well, for one, I doubt you were looking at any TwinAir figures 3 years ago :P

The European and American test cycles really can't be compared.  The testing is just too different.  EPA numbers can only really be compared with EPA numbers, and so on for other test systems.  So when you compare the Fiat 500's EPA fuel economy with the others in its class, I think you'll find it's quite competitive!

Also, remember that there's quite a lot of safety equipment, mandatory and otherwise, installed in the 500 that wasn't even thought of when your '88 Mazda was made.  I guarantee you'll have a much, much, much better chance of making it out of a given accident alive if you're in the 500.

I'm also confident the 500 is roomier.  Fiat designed for a potential 6'5" driver!  My experience shows that Japan didn't really account for that a couple decades ago ;)

No telling whether they tested a Pop or Sport, but I would imagine the MPG would be very slightly higher in the Pop, considering the (I assume) increased unsprung weight of the 16" Sport wheels.

[CaliberSRT4]

@FiatGal

I really do not understand how you could be disappointed with the fuel economy figure. 33 MPG combined EPA is the highest fuel economy of any 4+ seater gas car. And that is without paying extra for transmission upgrades or special eco packages. True, the 1.4L MultiAir is no TwinAir nor MultiJet II. But look at the competition: I don't see any 2-cylinder engines or small diesels there. Well, VW offers some diesels. But they get 34 MPG combined EPA; and diesel is more expensive than gas here, unlike in Europe, so that ends up being a wash. Though I'm sure the MultiJet II Fiat 500 would get better than 34 MPG, since the gas versions of the VW's get 27-28 MPG.

As for your '88 Mazda 323, I'm sorry to report that its fuel economy is not very close to the Fiat 500's. Based on the current EPA scale, it gets 24 city and 30 highway for a combined 27 MPG. The Fiat 500 also has many more features, is considerably quieter, more refined, faster, better handling, and astronomically safer.

As for deciding between buying a Fiat 500 now or waiting for more powertrains, that is a tough choice. For the EV, you would be waiting a bit less than 2 years. But with an 80 mile commute, the EV would barely cut it. For any other possible powertrains, you would be waiting over 2 years for sure.


@sketch

I highly doubt the Sport wheels are heavier than the Pop wheels. The Pop has steel wheels, the Sport has aluminum. Steel wheels are heavier than aluminum. Generally, you can go at least one inch larger in diameter with an aluminum wheel, without increasing in weight beyond the original steel wheel.

Also, I don't think the Pop is a very good value compared to the Sport. The Sport gets so many upgrades from the Pop that it is almost a no-brainer at $2,000 more. Chrome exhaust tip, sport cloth/vinyl seats, 16" aluminum wheels, wider tires, sport suspension, Bose premium sound system, red brake calipers, sport body kit, rear spoiler, leather-wrapped sport steering wheel, fog lights, and steering wheel audio controls.

[MrJones]

Still, you have to be a little disappointed in the MPG numbers on this little car--especially the auto trans. True, EPA numbers differ from real world numbers, but that's true for every vehicle. EPA tests/numbers are used as a rubric by which all manufacturers can be gauged--accurately or not. They are all tested/scored the same. So to say that the Fiat will get better real world mileage (I'm sure it will) and another car will not is unfair.

I believe the success or failure of Fiat will hinge on how the public perceives and interprets the MPG numbers. I personally feel they are disappointingly low for a car this size and HP and will probably shift my car shopping to something more like the Mazda2 or Fiesta.

[ciddyguy]

Fiatgal,

I tend to agree with both Sketch and CaliberSRT4 on this.

Remember when people only had the Euro car to go by using the Euro mileage figures and converting them? That was for the NON MultiAir 1.4L motor as the MultiAir 1.4 is ONLY available here in the US/Canada at this moment.

And even when converted to US figures, the mileage dropped by at least 5mpg overall and even it was STILL near 40mpg, much like it is now if I recall for highway anyway.

I got great gas mileage out of my 83 Civic and I know it was in the 30's highway and did about 300-350miles on a full tank (I think 10Gals or so was its capacity) back in the day so I guess at best, mid 30's there, the Accord with the larger 2.0L 4 (88 LX-I with fuel injection) got at best low 30's highway, mid to upper 20's city - tops, both 5spds.

And as already been said, the mileage is similar if not a tad more than the competition. To get cars with 40 or more, you had to sacrifice quite a bit more and that was performance, remember the ultra high mileage Civics of the 1990's, the Geo Metro's? The Civic used a very early version of the variable valve system (2 stage) and lower HP to achieve their ultra high mileage, Suzuki who made the Sprint/Metro A segment car did it with a 3 cylinder motor, and again, HP was minuscule.

Here, we have a car with quite decent performance (9.7 sec on this size motor is pretty good, even today) and while it's no lightweight it does weigh in at 2,333# curb weight, which isn't bad by today's standards at all and yet still manages 37 highway, 30 city, 33 combined.

That's considerably better than my truck that's for sure.

[ciddyguy]

MrJones wrote

Still, you have to be a little disappointed in the MPG numbers on this little car--especially the auto trans. True, EPA numbers differ from real world numbers, but that's true for every vehicle. EPA tests/numbers are used as a rubric by which all manufacturers can be gauged--accurately or not. They are all tested/scored the same. So to say that the Fiat will get better real world mileage (I'm sure it will) and another car will not is unfair.

I believe the success or failure of Fiat will hinge on how the public perceives and interprets the MPG numbers. I personally feel they are disappointingly low for a car this size and HP and will probably shift my car shopping to something more like the Mazda2 or Fiesta.

I would research the Fiesta and Mazda2 mileage figures, especially if you intend to go w/ the manual, the 2 only had an antiquated 4spd autobox.

That said, the Mazda has 100 HP too.

[MrJones]

Just a quick check on the Mazda2 shows the 2011 with 5-speed @ 29/35. Everybody tends to focus a lot on the highway mileage, but most, if not all, of my driving is urban. So, the 500 gets 1 MPG better there. The Mazda is also around $14k ($15.6 for touring trim). Is it as well equiped as the Fiat? Probably not. As mentioned before, everything is a trade-off. The extra $50 or so of gas I save with Fiat doesn't make much of a dent in the MSRP. By the way, I'm curious what everyone thinks the resale value for the 500 will be?

I'm not trying to slam the 500 here--the MPG numbers are indeed good. I still think people are going to balk at the auto transmission numbers when they see them.

[Small Car Lover]

MrJones, I'm a little confused what you are getting at

The Mazda 2 with the auto is 27 city/ 33 hwy vs 27 city / 34 hwy for the 500 with the auto.

So why would a buyer balk at the 500 auto transmissions numbers be fine with the Mazda 2 numbers?

The MSRP prices are similar when comparing similary equipped cars.  Quality of interior materials is better on the 500 from the pictures we have seen (IMHO), the Mazda 2 has 4 doors.  

Seems like the vehicles are quite competitive.  Not sure why a buyer would balk at one and not the other

[MrJones]

Touché-- I did not realize that you could get the auto transmission in the Fiat Pop trim. I thought it was lounge only--and thus I based my MSRP savings on that.

I apologize.

This is becoming a very competitive class of cars and Fiat will have their work cut out for them vs. established brands in the US. Having said that, I think the 500 is a fantastic car (on paper) and has a lot going for it and I will certainly entertain buying my Prima whenever it gets here.