Engine Question

[RacerRon]

Chris (or anyone),

Is the 1.4 MultiAir a non-interference engine? In-other-words, if the timing belt breaks, do you end up with bent valves?

[Jim McKenzie]

you must own an early 1300 X1/9?   :) I think all moden engines are non-interference (like the later X1/9's) but this is a great question.

[JustWilliam]

 It IS a great question! This is what Jalopnik has to say about MultiAir-

  The system replaces the overhead camshaft controlling the intake valves with hydraulic controllers, which allow infinitely variable timing of the air coming into the pistons. That lets the engine's computer to tailor combustion to the mood of the driver, getting out of the way at wide-open throttle while blipping the valves at other times for efficiency. It's quite trick — the engine head has a two-part casting, the oil in the hydraulics comes from the engine block, and there's a temperature sensor to get the oil at the right viscosity. (Fiat also joins the list of engine makes for which a broken timing belt means crunched valves, but those concerns should be 150,000 miles away.)

The entire entry can be read here- http://jalopnik.com/5745867/2012-fiat-500-first-drive

Not exactly what we wanted to read, but good to know I suppose.

Peace,
William

[RacerRon]

Maybe Chris will know for sure.
Yeah, the X1/9 1300 engine was an interference engine, while the later 1500cc was not. I have a '94 Miata that broke a timing belt at 54,000 miles; luckily that engine is a non-interference one, so no bent valves. The timing belt for that engine was supposed to last until about 90,000 miles, but not all of them do. But, with all the X1/9s I owned and raced I never had a timing belt break, and I used standard Fiat belts.

Now, I wonder if the 1.4 MultiAir turbo from the Abarth will fit in an X1/9??

[Fiat500USA]

RacerRon wrote

Chris (or anyone),

Is the 1.4 MultiAir a non-interference engine? In-other-words, if the timing belt breaks, do you end up with bent valves?

Michael Vincent, Chief Program Engineer for the 1.4 MultiAir gave us a briefing on the engine. It is an interference type engine, the belt change interval is 150,000 miles.  With that kind of interval, there's plenty of time to do a timing belt change.

One neat thing about the engine is you don't have to use synthetic oil. just 5W-30, no problem.

[Fiat500USA]

 You know, I've never broke a belt on a Fiat, either. Use a good belt and change the tensioner. Just basic maintenance. One of the easiest cars to change a belt on, too.


When it came to Fiats, it's amazing how a lack of maintenance or poor mechanical skills were never blamed for belt breakage. It was always the cars fault.

Other cars like the Miatta and Audi's, which I've worked with, break belts before the change interval and sail on with great reputations.

[ciddyguy]

Oh this is really good to know indeed.

When I bought my 1983 Civic in '92, Honda was just going to the then new 90K mile belts and that's what went into the Civic as its belt was due a replacement as it'd been probably over the 60K interval at 112K, the then previous belt change interval.

I read that the Yugo's belts tended to last around 30K before they broke and those engines (mainly the 1.1L, but perhaps the older 1.3 too) interference motors and that caught many an owner unaware at the time, but I doubt many read the owner's manual to know the maintenance intervals anyway.

[RacerRon]

Thanks for clearing that up Chris. Wow, 150,000 miles before a belt change. That's a long time.

The timing belt on the Miata is a little tricky to change, being a DOHC engine. The SOHC Fiats were a snap to change out.

[Fiat500USA]

ciddyguy wrote

Oh this is really good to know indeed.

When I bought my 1983 Civic in '92, Honda was just going to the then new 90K mile belts and that's what went into the Civic as its belt was due a replacement as it'd been probably over the 60K interval at 112K, the then previous belt change interval.

I read that the Yugo's belts tended to last around 30K before they broke and those engines (mainly the 1.1L, but perhaps the older 1.3 too) interference motors and that caught many an owner unaware at the time, but I doubt many read the owner's manual to know the maintenance intervals anyway.

I actually bought a new 90 YUGO. The belt was really heavy duty and I think the interval was either  60,000 or 90,000 (!).  The new fuel injected YUGO was much improved over the old ones.  I just sold the car 2 years ago. It was a great car, believe it or not. Simple but dead reliable. the only problem I had was the inertia switch (A Ford part) went bad. The timing belt was cake on that car to change.

One thing about YUGO owners is SOME didn't understand about maintenance and a lot brought them to the cheapest (and most inexperienced) mechanics they could find with disastrous results.  A good lesson in marketing something as cheap. I always thought they should have marketed it as fun....hmmm, wait a minute, that sounds familiar! LOL

[ciddyguy]

Fiat500USA wrote

ciddyguy wrote

Oh this is really good to know indeed.

When I bought my 1983 Civic in '92, Honda was just going to the then new 90K mile belts and that's what went into the Civic as its belt was due a replacement as it'd been probably over the 60K interval at 112K, the then previous belt change interval.

I read that the Yugo's belts tended to last around 30K before they broke and those engines (mainly the 1.1L, but perhaps the older 1.3 too) interference motors and that caught many an owner unaware at the time, but I doubt many read the owner's manual to know the maintenance intervals anyway.

I actually bought a new 90 YUGO. The belt was really heavy duty and I think the interval was either  60,000 or 90,000 (!).  The new fuel injected YUGO was much improved over the old ones.  I just sold the car 2 years ago. It was a great car, believe it or not. Simple but dead reliable. the only problem I had was the inertia switch (A Ford part) went bad. The timing belt was cake on that car to change.

One thing about YUGO owners is SOME didn't understand about maintenance and a lot brought them to the cheapest (and most inexperienced) mechanics they could find with disastrous results.  A good lesson in marketing something as cheap. I always thought they should have marketed it as fun....hmmm, wait a minute, that sounds familiar! LOL

Chris, I actually got to drive one, an 86 or 87 version and I think the later 1990-91 versions as well at least once and you may well be right that the later ones were better, and I felt the same way at the time as just sitting in the car, the seats didn't rock or anything like that unlike the early ones first imported here.

I can't vouch for the 30K mile timing belt interval but that is what some have said and you are well right that the Yugo, while inexpensive was thought of as cheap and was treated as such.

There IS someone around Seattle that drives a later one, with fuel injection and there may be more of them hiding about as I hardly see them anymore around here even though rust isn't the issue here.

I've always wanted to have owned one, just to see how good/bad they really were.

[Jim McKenzie]

you know I was wondering the same thing, or would it fit in an 850...?

[Fiat500USA]

Honestly, I had a lot of fun in the YUGO.  The fuel injection made it quite reliable. It was a Bosch Motronic system.  The interiors were upgraded along with the trim.  I put on 14 inch Lancia wheels, a rear sway bar, and had a custom 2 inch exhaust bent up with a stock (70's era?) Trans Am muffler.  It was quiet, but had a nice sound at high RPM's.

It was like having a modern Fiat 128 but without points and a carburetor. Just turn the key and it always started. Hot/cold, whatever.

I had the chance to talk with someone important from YUGO America (he lived next door to a friend) and he said when they left, their warranty rates were down to Toyota levels. You'll never hear that from all the talking heads...

Anyone who's been around Fiats knows all about that sought of thing....

[Fiat500USA]

What happened is ZASTAVA took over the importation from Malcolm Bricklin in the late 80's, and redid the whole car with a lot of improvements.  Here's a story:

YUGO America wanted wheels to put on the GVX (?) sport model and they looked at a lot of aftermarket wheel companies. After looking at the cost of these wheels, someone from ZASTAVA in Yugoslavia said they can make them cheaper and they did.  I had a set of these wheels, they where nice and had steel inserts for the lugs, etc., and man, they held up really well here in the north east.

Oh well, some useless trivia for a Sunday!

[ciddyguy]

Fiat500USA wrote

Honestly, I had a lot of fun in the YUGO.  The fuel injection made it quite reliable. It was a Bosch Motronic system.  The interiors were upgraded along with the trim.  I put on 14 inch Lancia wheels, a rear sway bar, and had a custom 2 inch exhaust bent up with a stock (70's era?) Trans Am muffler.  It was quiet, but had a nice sound at high RPM's.

It was like having a modern Fiat 128 but without points and a carburetor. Just turn the key and it always started. Hot/cold, whatever.

I had the chance to talk with someone important from YUGO America (he lived next door to a friend) and he said when they left, their warranty rates were down to Toyota levels. You'll never hear that from all the talking heads...

Anyone who's been around Fiats knows all about that sought of thing....

I would imagine so and I had the distinct feeling they were, overall not nearly as bad as people wanted them to be, based on price alone. True it was not the most up to date car there ever was, largely due to the fact that the drive train I think WAS original to the 128 as it had the 1.1L and 1.3L motors and these were supposed to be the same units although updated with Fuel Injection.

I remember when they first came out, the only trim was the GV and it came with those odd tilting forward seats, the oddly alingned steering wheel and had the vaguest shifter around and was powered by a carbureted 1.1L 4 cylinder, mated to I think a 5spd trans-axle and they had their measure of fun and I think I would've been fine with one of them, had I been in a position to scrape of that kind of scratch for one new.

I recall they expanded their trim to include a GVS, GVL and the GVX with but the GVX sporting the odd tilting seats, the 1.1L 4 and basic steel wheel, with the GVX getting the quicker 1.3L 4 and the better sliding/tilt front buckets and I think it was fuel injected, as was the cabrio, which I never saw in real life but have seen photos of though.

I remember the final version of the cars had the upgraded seats and motor with fuel injection and if you wanted AC, it was an add on unit with its own vents and controls and bolted onto the lower console stack, just below the factory heater controls and came with a wheezing basic AM/FM cassette deck that put out all of 5W total I think through 4 speakers although the rear ones were small 4x6 cones if I recall and they were optional.

Still in all, very interesting cars at that time and still a car that intrigues me.

[Fiat500USA]

ciddyguy wrote

Fiat500USA wrote

Honestly, I had a lot of fun in the YUGO.  The fuel injection made it quite reliable. It was a Bosch Motronic system.  The interiors were upgraded along with the trim.  I put on 14 inch Lancia wheels, a rear sway bar, and had a custom 2 inch exhaust bent up with a stock (70's era?) Trans Am muffler.  It was quiet, but had a nice sound at high RPM's.

It was like having a modern Fiat 128 but without points and a carburetor. Just turn the key and it always started. Hot/cold, whatever.

I had the chance to talk with someone important from YUGO America (he lived next door to a friend) and he said when they left, their warranty rates were down to Toyota levels. You'll never hear that from all the talking heads...

Anyone who's been around Fiats knows all about that sought of thing....

I would imagine so and I had the distinct feeling they were, overall not nearly as bad as people wanted them to be, based on price alone. True it was not the most up to date car there ever was, largely due to the fact that the drive train I think WAS original to the 128 as it had the 1.1L and 1.3L motors and these were supposed to be the same units although updated with Fuel Injection.

I remember when they first came out, the only trim was the GV and it came with those odd tilting forward seats, the oddly alingned steering wheel and had the vaguest shifter around and was powered by a carbureted 1.1L 4 cylinder, mated to I think a 5spd trans-axle and they had their measure of fun and I think I would've been fine with one of them, had I been in a position to scrape of that kind of scratch for one new.

I recall they expanded their trim to include a GVS, GVL and the GVX with but the GVX sporting the odd tilting seats, the 1.1L 4 and basic steel wheel, with the GVX getting the quicker 1.3L 4 and the better sliding/tilt front buckets and I think it was fuel injected, as was the cabrio, which I never saw in real life but have seen photos of though.

I remember the final version of the cars had the upgraded seats and motor with fuel injection and if you wanted AC, it was an add on unit with its own vents and controls and bolted onto the lower console stack, just below the factory heater controls and came with a wheezing basic AM/FM cassette deck that put out all of 5W total I think through 4 speakers although the rear ones were small 4x6 cones if I recall and they were optional.

Still in all, very interesting cars at that time and still a car that intrigues me.

I thought of it as a modern day Citroen 2CV.  Simple.  In that context, it was great, because, although the design was based on the Fiat 128 from the 60's, the 128 was a head of it's time and offered a FWD layout and engine that could still hold its own (at least in the updated, late versions).  

By the way, it was between a used Maserati Biturbo and a new YUGO.  I passed on the Maserati because I wanted a reliable car (!) and I've always wanted a new Fiat (I've had about 12 Fiats, but they were all used).

The odd angled steering wheel was typical of Italian cars back in the day (in Italy, 8 and 4 O'clock steering wheel grip was considered good form) and took some getting used to, but I grew up with that angle and liked it. The seat folding also was a holdover from the old days, and was different, but did provide reasonable access. The car was quirky/retro, and I got a kick out of it.

It was also about the same size as the new 500;)