Interested in a Prima Edizione?

[MrJones]

I think I'm going to pass on my Prima. If somebody here who didn't get on the list is interested--or you know somebody who is--send me an email and we'll see what we can work out.
It is Red, no sunroof, no engine heater.

[Giallo Edizione]

MrJones wrote

I think I'm going to pass on my Prima. If somebody here who didn't get on the list is interested--or you know somebody who is--send me an email and we'll see what we can work out.
It is Red, no sunroof, no engine heater.

If I could do that I would. I got in a sunroofed Sport yesterday and there is no way I would be happy driving it. I'm trying to figure out how to swap my red roofed PE for a non-roof PE within the dealership or across the country, or cancel and get another like yours. However dealer told me FIAT is tightly controlling these PE's and that if a reserve customer doesn't take delivery the car is shipped off to the dealer of the next person in-line to get a Primo who plunks down their $500.

I may have to forego the PE for a standard Sport. I suppose I could paint the roof and mirrors black and steal somebody's black painted rims.

[MrJones]

Sacred Bezel- I just sent you an email.

[Jim McKenzie]

I think you are correct. I just had a test drive of Fiat of Clearwater's 500 marketing unit, and the internet manager Steve Swartz told me the exact same thing: Fiat has instructed them that if the person putting the deposit down on the PE does not want the car, the dealer is to contact the next person on the waiting list and offer them the car.  The original depositor does not have any transferable rights...they either take delivery of the car or get their deposit back...but cannot assign their number to another.

My drive went well. Steve is a good guy and gave me some decent info:

Their former Saturn dealership was stripped to the cinderblocks and is being redone.  I saw a backhoe crew with about six guys working feversihly on the new Fiat studio which seemed small but had its own Service building as well..  He said the city of Clearwater just gave them the construction permit on Thursday and their goal is be open by May.  Very aggressive, but I expect they will do it.

I drove down in my 77 X1/9 and I think ALL of the Chrysler sales guys came out, saying "I guess we know why you are here" with smiles.  Several spoke with me and knew about "old" Fiat, about X1/9's, 124 Spiders and one even mentoned the 850 Spider and was just ecstatic to hear I was restoring one that would be on the road in a matter of weeks.  He asked I bring it in when roadworthy, which I readily promised.

Steve knew a lot about the 500.  He indicated they have been "test driving the hell out of it" and he himself is driving it around (to the famous Clearwater Beach area and other places) to get the car noticed.  He asked specifically about this website, which I told him was one of several revolving around the 500, and the best one.  I met a lovely couple there too who were waiting for me to come back from my TD to TD the 500 themselves. (Hi Mary Beth!) They knew quite a bit about the car too, and even mentioned the new Alfa mid-engine coming out this year (the 4 C?).  Steve indicated they were going to get an Alfa dealership and were building the Fiat Studio with Alfa spec'ed requirements now, to be ready.  Getting Alfa he indicated is the real plum for the dealership, and not Fiat.  Understandable.

Steve also told me I was like 51st to test drive the car in a week.  He said that everyone that had test-driven was at least 35 years old, (Though Mary Beth and her friend looked younger to me) and that he had had a couple of people that had not one but TWO PE's ordered.  One man drove up in an Escalade and bought matching PE's for his two sons because of the extra safety features of the 500's, and that they were sporty enough that his boys wouldn't feel like they were driving a Yaris.

I drove in a sporty metallic brown car, a lovely shade.  It had a gray cloth interior.  I liked the ride, seat bolsters very comfortable for me.  I'm 6'1" and 245 lbs so not a small guy.  Steve is 5' 11" and with him in front and me in th back had decent leg room. It wasn't a graceful entrance and exit for me, but once in the seat it was fine.  The back headrests block a great deal of the rear window ehn driving and I predict most of us will toss them within a few days of ownership.  Placed in the down position no one can sit in the seat, and with them up blocks 35-40% of the rear window, so I expect they will be discarded in normal use.

Steve said (like with others) they cannot order a custom car for a customer until the Studio is done, in May.  He has close to a dozen PE's coming in soon (inlcuding a re-direction from Fiat of Winter Haven because of a dealer appended fee of $ 600) (his fees by the way are $498.70 for prep and docs total, and $ 90 to transfer an existing plate, $ 225 for new.  All are state set)and is expecting a Lounge order in early May...they have ordered 30 cars for the lot and expect to stock 15-20 Sports, 5 Pops and 5-10 Lounges at any given time.  

I am going to buy one, I wasn't too sure, had my eyes on a 2012 Camaro as well, but the test drive sold me.   Car runs well...is peppy, agile. It rids high, some body roll (remember I drove there in an X1/9 so anything is going to have roll in comparison) and the shifter pod is a fairly hard surface to rest your accelerator leg against...but the fit and finish were decent, the engine sounds good and pretty quiet.   The blind spots (front windshield pillars and rear pillars) werre shockingly large and obtrusive.   I will NOT get a sunroof because of the way it limits headroom (and did not see a good way of blocking the sun...the screen is nearly useless except to reduce *some* roadnoise.

Shifter and cluthc were VERY light and fluid, found myself wanting to transpose them into my X.

So...with my X and my 850, within a few months I'll own three Fiats.  That qualifies as "certifiable", desn't it?  

[ciddyguy]

Good review there Jim and clearly, this car isn't for everyone, but for those who like it, it's love it, so far it's been either I don't like it or I love it, rarely anything in the middle.

I don't know about the rear headrests being tossed but I suppose some will but according to the Euro owner's manual, they are there for a reason, to keep one's head from hitting the back hatch area and are designed to be uncomfortable when lowered for a reason, to force those in the back to actually raise them when back there, otherwise, they can remain down during normal day to day use, that's the idea anyway.

I believe you DO have to remove them to fully lower the seat backs though, a minor annoyance I can see but they are not alone in this, as is the lack of a telescope feature to the steering column.

I'm not a huge guy and I didn't have problems with the sunroof so am planning on getting a sport with one.

[CaliberSRT4]

Nice review. Interesting that you were also looking at a Camaro. But you criticized the visibility of the 500. I'm wondering how you feel about the Camaro's visibility. When I sat in one that was probably the first thing that hit me. The low roof, thick pillars, high beltline, etc. I felt small sitting inside it.

Haven't been in a Fiat 500 yet. But based on pictures of the car, it looks like it would have fairly good visibility, especially with the higher seating position compared to the Mini. Visibility for parking also wouldn't be quite as important since the car has such a small footprint, it should be no problem to park.

[MrJones]

Jim McKenzie wrote

I think you are correct. I just had a test drive of Fiat of Clearwater's 500 marketing unit, and the internet manager Steve Swartz told me the exact same thing: Fiat has instructed them that if the person putting the deposit down on the PE does not want the car, the dealer is to contact the next person on the waiting list and offer them the car.  The original depositor does not have any transferable rights...they either take delivery of the car or get their deposit back...but cannot assign their number to another.

Just so we're clear, I'm not offering to transfer the rights to buy the car--I will buy the car, and you will buy the car from me. Not looking to make a profit on it (though I wouldn't turn down any generous "thank you" gift!).

I am doubting there will be any takers (which mostly proves my point that this is not a real hot collector's car), but thought I would give Fiat fans a chance at it.

[Jim McKenzie]

you can certainly proceed any way you wish, and I would not suppose to give advice.   But I honestly don't think that the methodology you propose to pursue is what Fiat wanted, nor is it likely what the very next person on the wait list would want to hear.   Plus the person that buys from you would legally be getting a used car...

I think the folks on the waiting list expect that if a PE depositor backs away from the sale, they, by virtue of being on the waiting list for the car would get first shot at it.  Otherwise, what's the purpose of the waiting list?

I could be wrong, often am, but that's my understanding.  Again, I'm not the "Fiat police" and as an adult you can do whatever you want to. :)

[ciddyguy]

CaliberSRT4 wrote

Nice review. Interesting that you were also looking at a Camaro. But you criticized the visibility of the 500. I'm wondering how you feel about the Camaro's visibility. When I sat in one that was probably the first thing that hit me. The low roof, thick pillars, high beltline, etc. I felt small sitting inside it.

Haven't been in a Fiat 500 yet. But based on pictures of the car, it looks like it would have fairly good visibility, especially with the higher seating position compared to the Mini. Visibility for parking also wouldn't be quite as important since the car has such a small footprint, it should be no problem to park.

Caliber,

When I drove the car the other weekend, I didn't find the visibility to be all that bad out the back, on the Sport and Lounge you DO get a decent sized spotter mirror on the driver's side and if you angle the wide angle mirror on the passenger side right, you should have decent visibility out the back, but then again, driving a truck with a canopy, anything else is going to be easy :-)

[MrJones]

Jim McKenzie wrote

you can certainly proceed any way you wish, and I would not suppose to give advice.   But I honestly don't think that the methodology you propose to pursue is what Fiat wanted, nor is it likely what the very next person on the wait list would want to hear.   Plus the person that buys from you would legally be getting a used car...

I think the folks on the waiting list expect that if a PE depositor backs away from the sale, they, by virtue of being on the waiting list for the car would get first shot at it.  Otherwise, what's the purpose of the waiting list?

I could be wrong, often am, but that's my understanding.  Again, I'm not the "Fiat police" and as an adult you can do whatever you want to. :)

Jim McKenzie- Thanks for your counsel. My methodology is no different than if I purchased any item of value (say a Super Bowl ticket, or an iPad) then resold it at a later date. In fact, I do not seek any profit from this sale, so there is no whiff of chicanery here.

What is the appropriate amount of time to wait before reselling the car? Do you submit that all the Prima buyers are lifetime owners? If you buy the Prima and after three months decide to sell it (say for a 500C), are you depriving the next person on the waiting list an opportunity to own the car? What if I buy it and donate it to charity? What if I buy it and strip it for parts? Is that "what the next person on the wait list would want to hear?" I buy it and do as I like with it and with no detriment to the next person on the list.
The waiting list is designed to allow people to wait in line to be given the opportunity to buy this car. Once all the cars have been purchased, there is no waiting list. Besides, there is no guarantee the next person on the list gets the car--it is at Fiat's discretion. They may decide not to ship it across the country to the next person (who also may eventually refuse it), or the can allow the dealer to sell it.
It is true that the buyer would be getting a "used" car from me. I am not claiming otherwise. They are aware that if they were to purchase the car from me they will be buying the car ($19,500), plus fees (~$195), plus taxes (5.6%). Additionally they know that they will also be responsible for taxes and fees again when they register the vehicle in their own name.

Mostly I started this thread to emphasize the point that this vehicle is not as collectible as some might like to believe. Heck, I can't even get somebody to buy it from me at face-value, I can't imagine somebody buying it from ebay or craigslist for $25-30K (which is the going price that I've seen). I don't really expect somebody to buy it from me. I'm still waiting to get a final hands-on look at it before refusing it.

If I understand your point, you believe that I am not acting in the spirit of fair play. I understand that. You think that I am letting somebody "cut in line." But legally (and I believe ethically), I am doing nothing wrong. It's a free market system.
I hope I do not come off as defensive or argumentative. If you have any further concerns I would be interested in hearing them!

[sjmst]

MrJones wrote

Jim McKenzie wrote

I think you are correct. I just had a test drive of Fiat of Clearwater's 500 marketing unit, and the internet manager Steve Swartz told me the exact same thing: Fiat has instructed them that if the person putting the deposit down on the PE does not want the car, the dealer is to contact the next person on the waiting list and offer them the car.  The original depositor does not have any transferable rights...they either take delivery of the car or get their deposit back...but cannot assign their number to another.

Just so we're clear, I'm not offering to transfer the rights to buy the car--I will buy the car, and you will buy the car from me. Not looking to make a profit on it (though I wouldn't turn down any generous "thank you" gift!).

I am doubting there will be any takers (which mostly proves my point that this is not a real hot collector's car), but thought I would give Fiat fans a chance at it.

Nothing at all wrong with that. You can pull it out of the dealer's parking lot, pull into the Target next door, and make the sale to the next buyer. Yes it will be a used car, but really, with no mileage, you may get takers. And if not, so be it. It is whatever the market will bring, for better or worse. If no takers, oh well. If they pay you 1,000 over list, great! You can also take off the stripes, change the wheels, dash, whatever. Once the buyer makes the purchase it is his or hers to do with as they please.
Nothing illegal or unethical about what you are discussing.

[MrJones]

Thanks, Sam.
How did you know there is a Target next to the dealer? Just kidding!

[sjmst]

MrJones wrote

Thanks, Sam.
How did you know there is a Target next to the dealer? Just kidding!

LOL, I was going to say Wal Mart, but wanted to make the scenario a littlle classier.

[Giallo Edizione]

There is nothing morally wrong with selling a used car, unless of course you are used car salesman.

That being said, is there sales tax in your state? If it were Mass, the tax would be over $1,200 which would be a lot to recover from a buyer. All other costs you incur most immediate buyers would be fine with I think since they'd have to pay it anyway for a new one. It's the sales tax that would be the resistance. As to it being a used car when they buy it from you, it's a used car once they buy it new from the dealer. If the market is frothy for PE's, I can see you getting sticker plus your delivery costs. You better have a very handsome deposit in hand before you sign papers to buy it from dealer though.

[MrJones]

Sacred Bezel wrote

That being said, is there sales tax in your state? If it were Mass, the tax would be over $1,200 which would be a lot to recover from a buyer. All other costs you incur most immediate buyers would be fine with I think since they'd have to pay it anyway for a new one. It's the sales tax that would be the resistance.

As I mentioned, sales tax is 5.6% (~$1100). Yes, this is the big problem with the deal. Who wants to pay this sales tax + their local tax when they register it (unless they live in a state w/out tax, e.g. New Hampshire, etc.).

Sacred Bezel wrote

 You better have a very handsome deposit in hand before you sign papers to buy it from dealer though.

Of course--and non-refundable. And certified check. I may ask for a DNA sample, but that might be going too far.

[Mike S]

You pay no tax in the state that you buy the car in if you don't live there. When you get it home, you pay the state tax when you register it at home.

[Giallo Edizione]

Mike S wrote

You pay no tax in the state that you buy the car in if you don't live there. When you get it home, you pay the state tax when you register it at home.

I think he means reimburse him for the sales tax he paid and then turn around and pay sales tax in the buyers state as well.

[CaliberSRT4]

ciddyguy wrote

Caliber,

When I drove the car the other weekend, I didn't find the visibility to be all that bad out the back, on the Sport and Lounge you DO get a decent sized spotter mirror on the driver's side and if you angle the wide angle mirror on the passenger side right, you should have decent visibility out the back, but then again, driving a truck with a canopy, anything else is going to be easy :-)

My truck had a cap as well, but then I got a tonneau cover. I always put my head out the window to back that truck up with the cap on.

Seems like there is a consensus though, and that the visibility out of the rear isn't ideal. Sounds like it might be a good idea to purchase the ParkSense system to help alleviate that issue. It is available through the dealers as a Mopar accessory for $325.

[ciddyguy]

CaliberSRT4 wrote

ciddyguy wrote

Caliber,

When I drove the car the other weekend, I didn't find the visibility to be all that bad out the back, on the Sport and Lounge you DO get a decent sized spotter mirror on the driver's side and if you angle the wide angle mirror on the passenger side right, you should have decent visibility out the back, but then again, driving a truck with a canopy, anything else is going to be easy :-)

My truck had a cap as well, but then I got a tonneau cover. I always put my head out the window to back that truck up with the cap on.

Seems like there is a consensus though, and that the visibility out of the rear isn't ideal. Sounds like it might be a good idea to purchase the ParkSense system to help alleviate that issue. It is available through the dealers as a Mopar accessory for $325.

Caliber,

I don't normally have to put my head out, and if I do, it's open the door and then stick it out.

But if I"m going to back up into a space from a distance, it's when I DO stick my head out to be sure I don't back into the car behind me while parallel parking. If just wiggling into a tight space, I don't normally need to, I rely on the mirrors and most of the time, I manage to avoid parking by braille. LOL.

[CaliberSRT4]

ciddyguy wrote

Caliber,

I don't normally have to put my head out, and if I do, it's open the door and then stick it out.

But if I"m going to back up into a space from a distance, it's when I DO stick my head out to be sure I don't back into the car behind me while parallel parking. If just wiggling into a tight space, I don't normally need to, I rely on the mirrors and most of the time, I manage to avoid parking by braille. LOL.

Right, typically I just try to make extra sure I don't back into the wall behind me or the other car if I'm parking on the street (and leaving enough room). Would be nice having rear parking sensors, so then I could learn how close they activate and use them to park at the correct distance.