Clutch redoux (for Chris)

[ciddyguy]

Chris,

I saw your reply to my original post on the clutches in the Fiat 500 as I could've sworn I saw hydraulic clutch reservoirs in the diagrams of the various motors offered in Europe but was not seeing a hydraulic clutch reservoir for the US models, nor any mention of the clutch itself.

Well, I've since learned that the US uses the same reservoir for both the brake and clutch as they both use the same hydraulic brake/clutch fluid.

But your reply had me baffled in that you indicated the European models use a cable actuated clutch instead, well, I had to verify that and recalled you had uploaded a PDF scan of the European 500 owner's manual and found it and scrolled down and I found out I had missed something the first go 'round.

It turned out, you were partially right. For all left hand drive models sold in Europe, they use a self adjusting cable clutch, but for the UK and other right hand drive countries, they do, in fact, use a hydraulic clutch unit instead and depending on which motor used, the clutch reservoir is either mounted on the right side of the engine bay, or on the left side as either a separate reservoir, or as found in the 95 HP diesel motor, it's a combination unit, much like the one we get here, otherwise, the clutch reservoir is near the coolant reservoir bottle on the right side.

And having driven both cable and hydraulic actuated clutches, I can say that either will, if designed right provide good feedback in so far as letting you, the driver know when they begin to engage as you let up on the pedal. I had 2 older Hondas, a 1983 Civic, and an 88 Accord, both had a non self adjusting cable clutch setup and both had excellent feedback as to when they began to engage, making feathering etc a breeze. My truck (1992 Ford Ranger), which replaced the aging and in sad shape Accord uses a hydraulic clutch that is appreciably heavier in feel than either Honda and it still manages to give excellent feedback for feathering so either CAN provide easy clutch learning and it took me a short amount of time to get the feel of the clutch in the truck despite it being hydraulic (plus, it was quite new still, approx 200 miles on the clutch plate at the time I bought it from good friends in 2006).

The DOWNSIDE is that the way the truck is designed, driving below 15mph in second gear makes it buck like, well, a bucking Bronco, and as low as 10, maybe 5mph in 1st before it bucks so holding in the clutch while inching forward in rush hour is tiring and not overly fun, but after remembering one can, and should shift above 3Krpm (thanks in part to how one should drive a Fiat), the fun began, but I can't go much over 4Krpm as the 4.0L V6 redlines at 5Krpm, but the truck takes on a life when I DO shift above 3Krpm and it actually is a rather fun truck to drive, as small trucks go anyway.

So we may both be partially right in this matter.

[Fiat500USA]

Hi ciddyguy,

That's pretty interesting. When I saw your post on the clutch, I opened the European repair manual to get some info. The section I used was for the 1.4L and defaults to LHD.  There might be a supplement for RHD in there, I have to take a look at that...

[ciddyguy]

Fiat500USA wrote

Hi ciddyguy,

That's pretty interesting. When I saw your post on the clutch, I opened the European repair manual to get some info. The section I used was for the 1.4L and defaults to LHD.  There might be a supplement for RHD in there, I have to take a look at that...

I think I just scrolled down through as I read and missed the section on LHD models, not realizing this was the generic European manual but thinking it was UK exclusive but remember seeing the section on RHD models though I was not noticing it even said so, just assumed as such as I didn't see the LHD illustrations, which I discovered yesterday just follows the LHD units and each section indicates the type of clutch used at the end of the illustrations.

Scroll down to page 177 at the end of the car's specifications which follows the LHD illustrations and it says, self adjusting cable clutch, then beginning on page 199, the illustrations for the RHD (UK and such) versions and on page 203 the specs say, indeed, it's hydraulic.

I found that interesting as well as enlightening.

[Alvon Elrod]

How can I get a copy of the European repair manual?

Alvon

[ciddyguy]

Alvon Elrod wrote

How can I get a copy of the European repair manual?

Alvon

Alvon,

Here is the link to Chris' scanned copy of the owner's manual. If you want a repair manual, you'll need a N. American manual as there ARE changes to the cars here from Europe.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/49755408/Fiat-500-Owners-Manual

He had posted it here in a thread about a month or so ago.

[Alvon Elrod]

Yes, I'm trying to get the NA Fiat 500 repair manual, but it seems to be non-existent at this point.  In the meantime, I would be entertained by perusing through the European manual.  I thought that I had seen it here a while back, as you mentioned, but I was not able to find it by searching on European, or repair, or manual.  If anyone has a link to it, I'd appreciate it.  

What I really want is the NA repair manual.  And leads on that will be appreciated also.

Alvon

[ciddyguy]

Alvon Elrod wrote

Yes, I'm trying to get the NA Fiat 500 repair manual, but it seems to be non-existent at this point.  In the meantime, I would be entertained by perusing through the European manual.  I thought that I had seen it here a while back, as you mentioned, but I was not able to find it by searching on European, or repair, or manual.  If anyone has a link to it, I'd appreciate it.  

What I really want is the NA repair manual.  And leads on that will be appreciated also.

Alvon

Click the link to my last comment to you and I gave you the link to the actual scan that Chris did here of the Euro owner's manual.

[Alvon Elrod]

Thanks.  I see my challenge here.  I'm looking for 'Repair Manual', 'Service Manual', 'Workshop Manual'.  That sort of thing.  You guys are referring to the 'Owners Manual'.  I'm covered there.  I have the DVD and the printed copy of the USA Owner's Manual, and appreciate your link to the European version.

Alvon

[Fiat500USA]

Alvon Elrod wrote

Thanks.  I see my challenge here.  I'm looking for 'Repair Manual', 'Service Manual', 'Workshop Manual'.  That sort of thing.  You guys are referring to the 'Owners Manual'.  I'm covered there.  I have the DVD and the printed copy of the USA Owner's Manual, and appreciate your link to the European version.

Alvon

I do have a European Service Manual, it was sent to me. I'm also waiting for the US manual (I've been working on getting this for almost a year).   I'm emailing someone on this later today.