CNN Money report on the 500c

[PE#454]

Here.

[ciddyguy]

PE#454 wrote

Here.

Not bad but could be more substantive though and the review was positive even though it rained throughout the whole event.

[littlejohn]

The C is Cool, I think more so than the hardtop 500 by far...

I agree with one of the folks who posted in the comments section, RE the Panda...why couldn't they have have brought that vehicle over, or maybe they are are already making them in Mexico?

Panda appears to list is about $5K less than the the 500, so would come in at around $11K for an entry level car.  I wonder if that is Fiat's next move for the US?...but I think it is to offer a larger car, not a smaller one?

Love a cheap Panda to commute in.

[PiZ]

Yes, Panda is cheaper than a 500. But in those comments I've also read that it is better looking....
Oh well ! Each to his own, but... i don't think Panda it's so cool ! (look at the pictures below)

About fuel efficiency. If we compare a different engine to the 500's, I agree with the comments. But if you take the Panda 100HP (same power, same displacement), the USA 500 has a far better mileage !






Another thing: here in Italy (and in Europe), Panda is considered of lower rank. And it is of lower rank !

PiZ

[Luckyme]

So cute it hurts is spot on!
Can't wait for our rosso/avorio... 8weeks, Mamma-mia!

[ciddyguy]

PiZ wrote

Yes, Panda is cheaper than a 500. But in those comments I've also read that it is better looking....
Oh well ! Each to his own, but... i don't think Panda it's so cool ! (look at the pictures below)

About fuel efficiency. If we compare a different engine to the 500's, I agree with the comments. But if you take the Panda 100HP (same power, same displacement), the USA 500 has a far better mileage !






Another thing: here in Italy (and in Europe), Panda is considered of lower rank. And it is of lower rank !

PiZ

Hey PiZ,

I've heard that the Panda is to be updated this year if I'm not mistaken and I've spotted some preliminary photos/artists renderings of what it might look like on the web, this looks like the current one or the version that's been on sale since 2003 and I hear the US 500 is using the Panda's new platform and that when the 500 is updated for 2013, Europe will get the same platform we have.

I actually like the Panda for its emphasis on utility but is still a nice looking package and seems well built for an entry level Fiat. I will concede that if Fiat brings over the Panda, it'll have to be upgraded somewhat in amenities like ALL 7 airbags standard for starters, ESC etc as are now required here on ALL cars and while it doesn't need quite the bells and whistles of the 500 it needs enough to make it worthwhile, but at a lower price point than the 500 and that'll give people who want a Fiat, but need 4 doors but can't quite swing for the 500, though I doubt how much less Fiat CAN lower its price in compared to the 500 but if Toyota can sell a stripped out Yaris for $10,000 and I mean stripped out by today's standards so I would think the Panda in base form with no options might come in at 12,000-13,000 US and perhaps top out at no more than $17K.

Can you shed any light on any of this perhaps, even if only speculatively?

Thanks!

[panther76]

<quote author="ciddyguy">

PiZ wrote

 if Toyota can sell a stripped out Yaris for $10,000 and I mean stripped out by today's standards

the most stripped yaris still has a radio and ac and is going to run close to $14k. the yarii without either of these items is mostly theoretical, and even so is over $12k.

there might be a rare loss leader advertised low to get people in, but most  yarii are closer to $14k-$16k.

.....which is why the 500 at $15,500 looked so appealing to me.

[littlejohn]

I did a little more research, read a review that pointed out the Panda Dynamic @ 9520 Pounds is really the Panda to have, as opposed to entry level model I had noticed a price on, called the Panda Active, etc.

so yeah, it is a wash really, probably come in the same as the 500 as mentioned, which I of course  agree 500 is the better looking of the two, certainly the "C" by a long shot.

Here is link with UK pricing of the fiat line, I assume somewhat current.

http://www.carpricechecker.co.uk/checker/index.cgi?manufacturer=FIAT&model=PANDA&SHOW_BODYSHAPE=HATCHBACK&SHOW_DIESEL=on&SHOW_AUTOMATIC=on&SEARCH=Go&BY_USER=1&whitelabel=&DPC=post+code&type=retail&postcode= 

[ciddyguy]

<quote author="panther76">

ciddyguy wrote

PiZ wrote

 if Toyota can sell a stripped out Yaris for $10,000 and I mean stripped out by today's standards

the most stripped yaris still has a radio and ac and is going to run close to $14k. the yarii without either of these items is mostly theoretical, and even so is over $12k.

there might be a rare loss leader advertised low to get people in, but most  yarii are closer to $14k-$16k.

.....which is why the 500 at $15,500 looked so appealing to me.

I know and I only mention that as if they CAN advertise that in a rare stripper, then it goes to show that Fiat could keep the Panda at a lower price than the 500.

Also, I see A LOT of basic Accents, sans rear wiper and basic cheap plastic wheel covers ALL OVER the place around here (Seattle) but your point is valid in that most Yari are a little better equipped than the stripper $9998 model that is advertised as a come on.

[Fiat500USA]

What they do is take a striped car or a car that is on the lot for a long time or needs to be ordered, advertise it at invoice LESS destination, minus all incentives, college, military, first time buyer, etc. rebates, maybe even the holdback.

When I did the story in 2009 on how much the 500 would cost, I thought the Yaris and Versa were cheap, but after I added up the equipment, the price was up there. I was pretty surprised.

[PiZ]

ciddyguy wrote

Hey PiZ,

I've heard that the Panda is to be updated this year if I'm not mistaken and I've spotted some preliminary photos/artists renderings of what it might look like on the web, this looks like the current one or the version that's been on sale since 2003 and I hear the US 500 is using the Panda's new platform and that when the 500 is updated for 2013, Europe will get the same platform we have.

I actually like the Panda for its emphasis on utility but is still a nice looking package and seems well built for an entry level Fiat. I will concede that if Fiat brings over the Panda, it'll have to be upgraded somewhat in amenities like ALL 7 airbags standard for starters, ESC etc as are now required here on ALL cars and while it doesn't need quite the bells and whistles of the 500 it needs enough to make it worthwhile, but at a lower price point than the 500 and that'll give people who want a Fiat, but need 4 doors but can't quite swing for the 500, though I doubt how much less Fiat CAN lower its price in compared to the 500 but if Toyota can sell a stripped out Yaris for $10,000 and I mean stripped out by today's standards so I would think the Panda in base form with no options might come in at 12,000-13,000 US and perhaps top out at no more than $17K.

Can you shed any light on any of this perhaps, even if only speculatively?

Thanks!

Yes, new Panda is a restyiling (for the aesthetics). The overall shape is the same, a bit refined and more "500 looking", in order to uniform the style of that segment.
It has the 500 platform.
Panda is well built, you are right, it has a lot of plastics, but they are not so bad. It is comfortable and reliable, and if you are looking for that kind of car I think it is the best of its category. In fact it is the best selling car of A segment in Europe.
In Italy, the Panda 1.2 Dynamic with manual AC, radio, airbags, ecc.. it's 25% less expensive than the 500 Lounge (1400 with manual AC and other equipment similar to the USA one I think, without Blue&me). So, maybe it should stay around the 70-75% of the USA 500 price... I am taking a wild guess, but I shouldn't be that far...

However I really don't know if it will be ever re-engineered in order to land in the States. Maybe... it will probably depend on people's welcome to Fiat in America and to their requirements for that segment of cars.
IMHO, the Punto Evo should be a better choice for your market, still cheaper than 500, equally equipped, (a lot) better looking than Panda and of the B segment, the same of Yaris, Fiesta, etc....
....and.. also available in the Abarth version !





I like it so much !!


But, all this said... unfortunately I am not a marketing manager !

Ciaoooo

PiZ

[ciddyguy]

PiZ wrote

ciddyguy wrote

Hey PiZ,

I've heard that the Panda is to be updated this year if I'm not mistaken and I've spotted some preliminary photos/artists renderings of what it might look like on the web, this looks like the current one or the version that's been on sale since 2003 and I hear the US 500 is using the Panda's new platform and that when the 500 is updated for 2013, Europe will get the same platform we have.

I actually like the Panda for its emphasis on utility but is still a nice looking package and seems well built for an entry level Fiat. I will concede that if Fiat brings over the Panda, it'll have to be upgraded somewhat in amenities like ALL 7 airbags standard for starters, ESC etc as are now required here on ALL cars and while it doesn't need quite the bells and whistles of the 500 it needs enough to make it worthwhile, but at a lower price point than the 500 and that'll give people who want a Fiat, but need 4 doors but can't quite swing for the 500, though I doubt how much less Fiat CAN lower its price in compared to the 500 but if Toyota can sell a stripped out Yaris for $10,000 and I mean stripped out by today's standards so I would think the Panda in base form with no options might come in at 12,000-13,000 US and perhaps top out at no more than $17K.

Can you shed any light on any of this perhaps, even if only speculatively?

Thanks!

Yes, new Panda is a restyiling (for the aesthetics). The overall shape is the same, a bit refined and more "500 looking", in order to uniform the style of that segment.
It has the 500 platform.
Panda is well built, you are right, it has a lot of plastics, but they are not so bad. It is comfortable and reliable, and if you are looking for that kind of car I think it is the best of its category. In fact it is the best selling car of A segment in Europe.
In Italy, the Panda 1.2 Dynamic with manual AC, radio, airbags, ecc.. it's 25% less expensive than the 500 Lounge (1400 with manual AC and other equipment similar to the USA one I think, without Blue&me). So, maybe it should stay around the 70-75% of the USA 500 price... I am taking a wild guess, but I shouldn't be that far...

However I really don't know if it will be ever re-engineered in order to land in the States. Maybe... it will probably depend on people's welcome to Fiat in America and to their requirements for that segment of cars.
IMHO, the Punto Evo should be a better choice for your market, still cheaper than 500, equally equipped, (a lot) better looking than Panda and of the B segment, the same of Yaris, Fiesta, etc....
....and.. also available in the Abarth version !





I like it so much !!


But, all this said... unfortunately I am not a marketing manager !

Ciaoooo

PiZ

Thanks PiZ,

I kind of thought as much on the Panda but wanted to ask as it WAS rumored that it would come over, perhaps badged as a Jeep, an entry level one, and the reason is its a 4 door boxy hatchback, much like the Nissan Cube etc, can hold even more than the 500 and comes in a 4x4 model but we've not heard anymore on that so who knows.

I agree, it's perhaps a bit too basic a car, but still when you add some of the key features such as keyless entry, AC, CD/USB/B&M and all seven airbags as standard, rather than the 2 front airbags standard, the rest optional as it is currently in Europe, it might be that if styled closer to what the 500 is to fit it into its segment better, it might be something many of us here in the states might look at as an option, but I agree, perhaps the next car might better off as a B segment, more on the lines of the Ford Fiesta in size, but perhaps come in either a 3 door hatch or 5 door hatch so people have options although I've read at one point, Fiat WAS looking into making the 500 a 5 door, but that was, what, 2 years ago.

[SeaDawg]

PiZ wrote

IMHO, the Punto Evo should be a better choice for your market,
still cheaper than 500, equally equipped, (a lot) better looking
than Panda and of the B segment, the same of Yaris, Fiesta,
etc........and.. also available in the Abarth version !

I think the Punto will eat the 500's lunch if Fiat brings it to NA.

And while I haven't seen any photos of the interior, it doesn't take a Marketing Manager to tell that!

[PiZ]

SeaDawg wrote

I think the Punto will eat the 500's lunch if Fiat brings it to NA.

And while I haven't seen any photos of the interior, it doesn't take a Marketing Manager to tell that!

...ah ! I was forgetting a little thing.... Punto Evo Abarth is cheaper than the 500 Abarth !

I do think the same thing about the lunch...  

[Jeepnut]

I would love to have the Punto Abarth here and I'll be honest I really like the 500 but I would rather have the Punto Abarth

[PiZ]

Jeepnut wrote

I would love to have the Punto Abarth here and I'll be honest I really like the 500 but I would rather have the Punto Abarth

I agree, Punto is beautiful (even in the non abarth version). But it is a different car, different segment. A lot of families here in italy have both cars. The "bigger" Punto, for long travels, the cute 500 for city and short trips...

PiZ